So, our district is running the Ripple Effect State Lab this week.  This has proven to be a huge waste of time.  Be warned if you haven’t done it yet.  It took me close to 7-8 hours of prep time (since it was the first time ever running it) and Session 1 (the written plan for the investigation) of the lab took 80 minutes to get through for it to be meaningful to the students.  When it came time to run the Stream Table and Rain Garden portion of it, it was extremely messy and faulty.  The data that was recorded was so flawed, and in most cases the models the students created did not even work.  I read and re-read the directions for this lab at least 5 times, so it’s not like I wasn’t well-versed in what the students were supposed to do.



The State should be ashamed by putting this lab out for everyone to do.  This lab could have been much more concise and far more explicit.  There are far too many variables/choices that they want the students to manipulate.  If you don’t carefully guide your students through this lab, it will be a catastrophe. I’d love to talk to the creators of this lab, because its clear that they either forgot what it’s like to have no time in between classes for set up and re-set up, or they have never stepped foot in the classroom.



Now, I’m sure over time, teachers will find ways to make this run better, but for the first time around, it proved to be very time consuming and anticlimactic.



C. R.



From: ESPRIT - Earth Science Peer Resource for Improved Teaching <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Flick, Greg

Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2025 8:24 AM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Relative time





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The assumption that all current ES students have acquired the requisite prior knowledge is a fallacy.



It has caused untold harm to our students, and their probable lack of achievement on the new Regents exam this June will demonstrate it.



NYS had some of the best and most rigorous ES standards in the country.  They were lowered and as a result brought NYS down to the levels of states with lower science standards. Those states may indeed show improvements, but NYS and other states like Massachusetts - whose former standards were exceptional will no longer lead.



They are now just followers.





Mr. F



Greg R. Flick, CPG

NYS Master Teacher (Emeritus) - Central Region

NASA/JPL Solar System Ambassador 2024-2025

2014 Honeywell Educator@Space Academy

Twitter: @MrFlickRocks

North Syracuse Junior High School

North Syracuse, NY 13212



From: ESPRIT - Earth Science Peer Resource for Improved Teaching <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> On Behalf Of Paula Eisenberger

Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 12:44 PM

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Relative time





CAUTION: This message is from an external sender. Please be careful when clicking on links and attachments.



________________________________

Hi all,



Just to clarify:



Anyone that is currently teaching the new standards will understand that there is NO time to do anything that is not explicitly in the standards. The problem is that in order to understand current topics we need to teach middle school or lower concepts.



My current school teaches Earth science in 6th grade. Not only do students not remember a thing, but they also don't have an earth science teacher teaching the subject matter.



So to reiterate my question: for those teaching to the current/ new standards are you going to take the time to dive into relative dating even though it isn't in the current high school standards? I have decided that I will, but the consequence is that there will be no time for other topics.



I really would love to know if anyone tested that there was time to teach all these standards in one school year using storylines or 5E. Because, for me, it's not.



Paula



On Mon, Mar 10, 2025, 12:33 PM Danville, Scott <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

The short answer is Yes, relative age dating and absolute age dating methods will be taught by those teachers concerned with contextualizing and making relevant what is in the new New York State Science Learning Standards.



Relative age dating remains essential under the New York State Science Learning Standards (NYSSLS) for several key reasons:



  *   NYSSLS & NGSS Alignment – HS-ESS1-5 requires students to analyze rock strata to interpret Earth’s history.

  *   Foundation for Absolute Dating – Concepts like the Law of Superposition are critical for understanding radiometric dating.

  *   Scientific Reasoning – Reinforces critical thinking and evidence-based analysis.

  *   Earth’s History & Evolution – Supports HS-ESS2-1 by helping students interpret fossils and past climate changes.

  *   Real-World Applications – Essential for geology, engineering, and climate science.



Keeping relative age dating in the curriculum ensures students grasp geologic time, environmental change, and scientific inquiry. Let me know if you'd like to discuss this further



Best,

Mr. Scott Danville

Earth science teacher

Beekmantown High School

New York State Master Teacher Academy/Emeritus<https://www.suny.edu/masterteacher/cohort/north-country/#d>

518.563.8787 ext 7682 (voice)

EarthScienceIsCool.com<https://earthscienceiscool.com/>

"If you do not follow your dream, whose dream are you following?"





On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 12:05 PM Shelley Cuccia <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

Relative time is addressed in MS-ESS1-4:





MS. History of Earth



Construct a scientific explanation based on evidence from rock strata for how the geologic time scale is used to organize Earth’s 4.6-billion-year-old history. [MS-ESS1-4]



NYS Level 4



NYS Level 3



NYS Level 2



NYS Level 1



Construct a scientific explanation, based on evidence from multiple sources, for how the geologic time scale is used to organize Earth’s 4.6-billion year-old history, and determine patterns of relative age for rock strata, fossils and past geologic events.



Construct a scientific explanation based on evidence from rock strata for how the geologic time scale is used to organize Earth’s 4.6-billion-year-old history.



Given a scientific explanation, use evidence from rock strata to determine that rock formations and the fossils they contain are used to establish relative ages of major events in Earth’s history.



Given evidence from rock strata, identify the explanation, from those provided, that the analysis of rock formation and the fossils they contain are used to establish relative ages of major events in Earth’s history.



Constructing Explanations & Designing Solutions



  *   Construct a scientific explanation based on valid and reliable evidence obtained from sources (including the students’ own experiments) and the assumption that theories and laws that describe the natural world operate today as they did in the past and will continue to do so in the future.



Scale, Proportion, & Quantity



  *   Time, space, and energy phenomena can be observed at various scales using models to study systems that are too large or too small.



 ESS1.C: The History of Planet Earth



  *   The geologic time scale interpreted from rock strata provides a way to organize Earth’s history. Analyses of rock strata and the fossil record provide only relative dates, not an absolute scale.



Clarification Statement



Emphasis is on how analyses of rock formations and the fossils they contain are used to establish relative ages of major events in Earth’s history. Examples of Earth’s major events or evidence could include very recent events or evidence (such as the last Ice Age or the earliest fossils of Homo sapiens) to very old events or evidence (such as the formation of Earth or the earliest evidence of life). Examples of evidence could include the formation of mountain chains and ocean basins, the evolution or extinction of particular living organisms, or significant volcanic eruptions.



Assessment Boundary



Assessment does not include recalling the names of specific periods or epochs and events within them, radiometric dating using half-lives, and defining index fossils.



On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 12:02 PM Paula Eisenberger <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

Relative time is not at all in the new standards, but the reference tables still has index fossils and rock records.



Who here is still going to teach relative time/rock correlation?



Paula

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