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December 2013

TB-L@LISTSERV.ONEONTA.EDU

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From:
"Fleisher, P. Jay" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Teaching Breakfast List <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sat, 7 Dec 2013 10:59:52 -0500
Content-Type:
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Hi Steve,
Good to hear from you, as always.  Stop by "my office" in TLTC and we'll swap geezer stories.  If we ask Harry to join us, then the sciences will be well enough represented to contest your tongue-in-cheek approach to argumentation.
Shalom,
Jay

________________________________________
From: Teaching Breakfast List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gilbert, Steven
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 7:49 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

Hi group:  I have been enjoying the exchange.



A question.  What was the N for the TBers who responded to the survey?  I assume it was relatively small (20? 30?) and probably only representative of a very distinct subgroup of faculty.  If so, the reliability (and thus validity) of the data for the TBers may not justify broad inferences concerning generational differences between students and faculty!!!



I suggest that more of you adopt my approach to argument:  start with the conclusions you prefer and then select data that appear to support them!  There are some technical difficulties with this approach, but a dollop of denial and a pinch of self-delusion is all most of us need to become quite comfortable with it.



These are perspectives that retirement engenders!



Steve.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven J. Gilbert, Ph.D.
   Professor Emeritus of Psychology
      State University of New York, College at Oneonta
      [log in to unmask]
      Home Page: http://employees.oneonta.edu/gilbersj/stevepage.htm
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________________________________________
From: Teaching Breakfast List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Fleisher, P. Jay
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 11:31 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

Well put, Harry.  No surprise that perception separated by a full generation or more differs – its what would be expected. Different generations have different points of view, and life goes on.  I am disappointed by the apathy and ignorance (i.e. racism and sexism) in an age when everyone has instantaneous access to virtually everything with a simple keystroke.  And since you mentioned dinosaurs, let me confirm that in spite of the tools of science, some fail to accept the Age of Reptiles and the antiquity of the Earth – its contrary to what they were taught in Sunday School.  Trust me.  I bucked that current teaching Intro Geology – “who the hell does that guy think he is?”, meaning me of course.
How’s that for stirring the pot?
Jay Fleisher
Emeritus

________________________________________
From: Teaching Breakfast List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pence, Harry
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

Dear Friends,

Perhaps part of the faculty response is due to our perception that youth (at least our own youth) was a time of innocence which we view through rose-colored glasses.  I must admit that when I was young, I floated through life in a cloud of self-absorption, ignoring most of the problems of the world around me.  Of course, that was a long time ago (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth), but I think that it has become increasingly difficult to ignore the outside world with each new generation.  I'm afraid that The Age of Innocence is dead.  Feel free to debate whether this is a good or bad thing.

Harry

P.S. This post may just signify that I am out of touch with the current generation of college teachers, in which case I apologize.The times they are a'changin.


Harry E. Pence
SUNY Distinguished Teaching Professor Emeritus
SUNY Oneonta

________________________________
From: Teaching Breakfast List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nowak, Rhea
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 8:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

My perception is that most faculty think racism is still a major problem, just as sexism still is.
But that is just my perception…
Best,
Rhea

Rhea Nowak
Associate Professor of Art
SUNY College at Oneonta
Oneonta, NY
(607) 436-2827

From: <McKay>, Zanna <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Reply-To: Teaching Breakfast List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Date: Friday, December 6, 2013 8:50 AM
To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

Yes, we were to answer what we thought they thought.
However, if faculty think 'racism' is no longer a problem, it would be my guess that we might say students think that. As I said, just a thought. It can assist the development of a powerful learning community to consider those things we find most difficult to confront in ourselves and our students.

It is not idealistic to think that racism is not a problem, it is racist.
Zanna

From: <McAvoy>, Michael <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Reply-To: Teaching Breakfast List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Date: Thursday, December 5, 2013 1:19 PM
To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

I believe you are correct. That’s how I responded (if I responded).

We think they are more idealistic than they report.

From: Teaching Breakfast List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nowak, Rhea
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 10:55 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

In the survey I thought we were responding to what we thought were their perceptions.

Rhea Nowak
Associate Professor of Art
SUNY College at Oneonta
Oneonta, NY
(607) 436-2827

From: <McKay>, Zanna <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Reply-To: Teaching Breakfast List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Date: Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:44 AM
To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

Or looking at discrimination, they are more aware of racial discrimination then we are.
Just a thought…
Zanna

From: <Nowak>, Rhea <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Reply-To: Teaching Breakfast List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Date: Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:03 AM
To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

So our students communicate to us they feel more overwhelmed than they actually do.
We were pretty close on wanting to become accomplished in a performing arts and identify as white.
They are more aware of racial discrimination than we think they are.
They feel more empowered than we think they do.
Am I reading this correctly?
Thanks,
Rhea

Rhea Nowak
Associate Professor of Art
SUNY College at Oneonta
Oneonta, NY
(607) 436-2827

From: <Greenberg>, Jim <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Reply-To: Teaching Breakfast List <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Date: Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:56 AM
To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Who is Entering Higher Ed?

TBers,

A month  ago I sent out a survey asking members of this listserv what percentages of the entering undergraduate class (nationally) you believe meets the indicated criterion.  Here are the results vs. the actual numbers (based on CIRP data for Fall 2012) .



 1.  Believe they will graduate in 4 years:

TB 84%
Actual 84%       (Nicely done group!)







 2.  Female students who felt overwhelmed by all they had to do:

TB 66%
Actual 41%




 3.  Male students who felt overwhelmed by all they had to do:


TB 57%
Actual 18%




 4.  Want to become accomplished in a performing art:


TB  22%
Actual 17%







 5.  Identify as white:


TB 78%
Actual 70%






 6.  Agree that "racial discrimination is no longer a major problem in America"


 TB 56%
Actual 23%






 7.  Believe that individuals can do little to bring about change in society:


TB 46%
Actual 28%













Mr. James B.Greenberg
Director Teaching, Learning, and Technology Center
Milne Library
SUNY Oneonta
Oneonta, NY  13820

Email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Phone: 607-436-2701
Twitter:  greenbjb
Blog: http://ctlaltpause.blogspot.com/

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