Rick, I agree with Rick in part but find that his position, which is shared by many in academia, communicates more the "romanticism" of undergraduate education rather than the reality. Taken to its logical end such a vision of the college experience is one where there would be no majors or departments but rather a free roaming educational experience for students who have no educational purpose but to fulfill their indescriminate intellectual appetites. It is a nice vision but impractical, at least at a state college or university. There are many reasons why we can't raise "free-range" students but lack of resources and a lack of willing and interested students are probably the barriers. Also, those of us who "train" students to go on to "careers" in professions that influence and impact the quality of life for others find a certain arrogance in the concept that "job training" is in some way a lesser purpose of the academy. Actually, the opposite could be argued that it is the highly trained (physicians, engineers, teachers, scientists, nurses, dentists, agriculture, etc) who are ultimately of the greatest value to society compared the "intellectuals." Personally, I would argue both are equally important to society. Bill Sincerely, Dr. William R. Proulx, Ph.D., R.D. Chair, Department of Human Ecology Associate Professor of Nutrition and Dietetics State University of New York College at Oneonta Oneonta, New York, 13820 607-436-2147 ________________________________ From: Teaching Breakfast List on behalf of <Rick Jagels> Sent: Wed 2/16/2005 10:49 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Recent Story About Students in Detroit News As someone who believes that education is the goal of a college such as ours not so much training for a specific career- I disagree with some of the authors premise. The ability to think critically, be aware of many career possibilities, have some understanding of cultures and history, derive pleasure from the pursuit of art and music of many kinds, learn to live in an environment of diverse views, races, cultures: these are some of the loftier goals of education. The author's contention that students are too rich and have no career goals misses the point. Interestingly the limited purpose of "job training" is, I believe, MORE dangerous than career purposelessness. They will change careers too often for us to train them for only one. Ethics, Art, communication, composition, history etc. are ultimately of the greatest value. Three cheers for the purposelessness student with an indiscriminant intellectual appetite! Now- where the hell are they?? Rick Jagels -----Original Message----- From: Teaching Breakfast List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jim Greenberg Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:00 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Recent Story About Students in Detroit News This was a good read.. Thought this group would find it interesting.... Title: Lack of purpose haunts students http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0502/13/A15-87606.htm Jim Greenberg --