Having not yet read the article distributed by Jim, I nevertheless feel I must also jump in to this conversation. There seems to be an undertone that LA education and "vocational" education are at opposite ends of some spectrum. I would argue not!!! I have always taught accounting and law in what I would describe as LA mode - not focused on how to do something, but rather how to think critically and reflectively in the context of my discipline(s). I am not preparing my students to do a particular job, but rather how to think about the subject matter of their jobs. I have had non-business majors, and hope they learned as much in my courses as those who were. I further believe that any so-called "vocational" training, must include an opportunity for extensive diversity in course selections, and an opportunity to "browse" through the college curriculum. I believe this philosophy is widely held by my colleagues in the business disciplines, and probably also by many others in those disciplines not traditionally part of the LA curriculum. Hope you all have a good break. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Teaching Breakfast List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of <Rick Jagels> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:50 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Recent Story About Students in Detroit News As someone who believes that education is the goal of a college such as ours not so much training for a specific career- I disagree with some of the authors premise. The ability to think critically, be aware of many career possibilities, have some understanding of cultures and history, derive pleasure from the pursuit of art and music of many kinds, learn to live in an environment of diverse views, races, cultures: these are some of the loftier goals of education. The author's contention that students are too rich and have no career goals misses the point. Interestingly the limited purpose of "job training" is, I believe, MORE dangerous than career purposelessness. They will change careers too often for us to train them for only one. Ethics, Art, communication, composition, history etc. are ultimately of the greatest value. Three cheers for the purposelessness student with an indiscriminant intellectual appetite! Now- where the hell are they?? Rick Jagels -----Original Message----- From: Teaching Breakfast List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jim Greenberg Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:00 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Recent Story About Students in Detroit News This was a good read.. Thought this group would find it interesting.... Title: Lack of purpose haunts students http://www.detnews.com/2005/editorial/0502/13/A15-87606.htm Jim Greenberg --